https://www.ncronline.org/printpdf/40306
Early Women Leaders from Heads of House Churches to Presbyters
https://www.ncronline.org/printpdf/42036?_ga=1.23553402.1742543511.1322793814
The Meaning of Ordination and How Women Were Gradually Excluded
https://www.ncronline.org/printpdf/42706
The Meaning of Ordination in the first millenium
https://www.researchgate.net/publication/292878547_The_meaning_of_ordination_in_the_first_millennium_of_Christianity
Here is a You Tube video of a presentation, The Hidden History of Women Ordination by Dr. Gary Macy at Loyola Marymount University. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z-bSQnvjnkU
The Reonsideration of Orders by Vatican 11.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A-C1LKJI6cE&feature=youtu.be
Some notes on this lecture by Gary Macy
Vatican 11: The Constitution on the Church: Lumen Gentium
The church is made up of every single good person that has ever lived.
Yves Congar, Karl Rahner retrieved older theology that taught this earlier understanding of the
The governing of the church belongs to the college of bishops with the pope.
It has not happened yet!
The laity share in the priesthood in the church. Yves Congar, Vatican 11
A new ordained ministry that would work closer to the people.
So brought back permanent deacons.
2 proposals wanted to open the diaconate to women. 746 in favor and 42 against. Why should they not be ordained since they are already doing the job. They should be married.
Allow those bishops who want it to have permanent deacons. It passed.
Cardinal Suenens intervened, preaching, presiding over communities, practicing charity, service to people.
Permanent are not called to be priests, can be married, separate function, they are to be the servants, assist priests at altar. new expression of an older ministry. (revive older custom, always in new context)Deacons report to bishops. Deacon work with the bishop, not the parish priest, servant in a servant church.
Now there are 2 ordained orders in the church.
Before 11 century, ordo was a word that meant putting anything at all in order. (putting your books in order, "ordained") Ordo three orders: cleric knight and peasant. had a particular role/function in the community. Ordination ceremony for kings, empresses, abbots, abbesses because these were different roles in the community. All equally ordained. if ordained an abbess, were equally ordained as abbess. During Gregorian Reform they started to work out the theological meaning of ordination. Hugh St. Victor, said two great sacraments, creation and redemption. 16th century, we get 7 sacraments! Widows and nuns were ordained/ holy women.
A bishop did not have to be a priest to be a bishop. Almost every one had some ordo or function.
The community would pick you to do a particular job, then they would have a ceremony to install you to serve that community. Council of Nicea calls bishops moving to another community, an "adulterer."
Pope Leo the Great, Pope Gregory the Great, Ambrose of Milan was never a priest. Sometimes they would pick a deacon. like Leo and Gregory the Great and St. Ambrose was made a bishop but not a deacon or priest when community picked him to be a bishop of community. You did not have a power that you took with them when they moved as in later centuries.
Gregory V11 was a monk who insisted on being ordained a priest.
12th century debate: could anyone who say words of consecration or did the person have to be ordained?
Schillebeeckx, Leader of the Community in the early centuries led liturgy, presided over Eucharist.
12th century: Beginning of Celibacy: popularity of Aristotle: every woman is a mistaken male, women were stupid, dirty, evil scriptures and you would not want to be married to one.
Vatican 11 reversed Gregorian reforms: two ordained states.
ordination picked by a community to serve a community.
2 ordained positions: ( no document says that women cannot be deacons) Cardinal Kasper, Yes, women not ordained, but consecrated as deaconess.
Lots of evidence there were women deacons, prayer for ordaining a male or a female deacon. historical argument is not definitive!
Ordination to the diaconate is an open question. Canon law society said ok!
Bishop is consecrated but not ordained. 2 orders, deacon and priests.
Phoebe is only one in NT called a deacon, Olymphia, Heloise 12century.
In the 12th century, Mary, mother of Jesus is depicted as dressed like a deacon.
Sister Gloria: Women do not need to be ordained deacons, the church needs women deacons.
Deacons witness to our ecclesial identity to preach the word, proclaim the Gospel and to witness in service of the church.
Women have carried the diaconal role. Why deny those who are serving in diaconal roles the grace of the sacraments?
Both women and men have unique grace to bring to church and to this role, Church should allow all members of church to live the fullness of faith.
The Reonsideration of Orders by Vatican 11.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A-C1LKJI6cE&feature=youtu.be
Some notes on this lecture by Gary Macy
Vatican 11: The Constitution on the Church: Lumen Gentium
The church is made up of every single good person that has ever lived.
Yves Congar, Karl Rahner retrieved older theology that taught this earlier understanding of the
The governing of the church belongs to the college of bishops with the pope.
It has not happened yet!
The laity share in the priesthood in the church. Yves Congar, Vatican 11
A new ordained ministry that would work closer to the people.
So brought back permanent deacons.
2 proposals wanted to open the diaconate to women. 746 in favor and 42 against. Why should they not be ordained since they are already doing the job. They should be married.
Allow those bishops who want it to have permanent deacons. It passed.
Cardinal Suenens intervened, preaching, presiding over communities, practicing charity, service to people.
Permanent are not called to be priests, can be married, separate function, they are to be the servants, assist priests at altar. new expression of an older ministry. (revive older custom, always in new context)Deacons report to bishops. Deacon work with the bishop, not the parish priest, servant in a servant church.
Now there are 2 ordained orders in the church.
Before 11 century, ordo was a word that meant putting anything at all in order. (putting your books in order, "ordained") Ordo three orders: cleric knight and peasant. had a particular role/function in the community. Ordination ceremony for kings, empresses, abbots, abbesses because these were different roles in the community. All equally ordained. if ordained an abbess, were equally ordained as abbess. During Gregorian Reform they started to work out the theological meaning of ordination. Hugh St. Victor, said two great sacraments, creation and redemption. 16th century, we get 7 sacraments! Widows and nuns were ordained/ holy women.
A bishop did not have to be a priest to be a bishop. Almost every one had some ordo or function.
The community would pick you to do a particular job, then they would have a ceremony to install you to serve that community. Council of Nicea calls bishops moving to another community, an "adulterer."
Pope Leo the Great, Pope Gregory the Great, Ambrose of Milan was never a priest. Sometimes they would pick a deacon. like Leo and Gregory the Great and St. Ambrose was made a bishop but not a deacon or priest when community picked him to be a bishop of community. You did not have a power that you took with them when they moved as in later centuries.
Gregory V11 was a monk who insisted on being ordained a priest.
12th century debate: could anyone who say words of consecration or did the person have to be ordained?
Schillebeeckx, Leader of the Community in the early centuries led liturgy, presided over Eucharist.
12th century: Beginning of Celibacy: popularity of Aristotle: every woman is a mistaken male, women were stupid, dirty, evil scriptures and you would not want to be married to one.
Vatican 11 reversed Gregorian reforms: two ordained states.
ordination picked by a community to serve a community.
2 ordained positions: ( no document says that women cannot be deacons) Cardinal Kasper, Yes, women not ordained, but consecrated as deaconess.
Lots of evidence there were women deacons, prayer for ordaining a male or a female deacon. historical argument is not definitive!
Ordination to the diaconate is an open question. Canon law society said ok!
Bishop is consecrated but not ordained. 2 orders, deacon and priests.
Phoebe is only one in NT called a deacon, Olymphia, Heloise 12century.
In the 12th century, Mary, mother of Jesus is depicted as dressed like a deacon.
Sister Gloria: Women do not need to be ordained deacons, the church needs women deacons.
Deacons witness to our ecclesial identity to preach the word, proclaim the Gospel and to witness in service of the church.
Women have carried the diaconal role. Why deny those who are serving in diaconal roles the grace of the sacraments?
Both women and men have unique grace to bring to church and to this role, Church should allow all members of church to live the fullness of faith.
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