Tuesday, March 30, 2010

Catholics Should Stop Giving in Response to Bishop Dewane's Directive on Foot Washing

http://www.heraldtribune.com/article/20100330/ARTICLE/3301069
Dear Editor,
In response to your article on "A gender debate on foot washing", Catholics in Southwest Florida, who believe in gender equality, should stop giving and see if Bishop Dewane changes his directive on washing women's feet on Holy Thursday. The meaning of the foot washing is that Jesus gave us an example of mutual service. So why should priests not wash the feet of women who do so much work in local parishes?
The bible tells us that Jesus washed his disciples feet. Women were among Jesus' closest disciples. The Risen Christ appeared first to Mary of Magdala and told her to "go and tell" the apostles the Good News of the Resurrection. The church fathers called Mary, the "apostle to the apostles". So,on what grounds does the Catholic Church hierarchy refuse to wash women's feet? Is this another example of sexism? If so, Catholics need to take action.
Bridget Mary Meehan
Roman Catholic Womanbishop
serving the Southern Region
Sarasota, Florida
sofiabmm@aol.com
941-955-2313


Most Rev. Frank J. Dewane, Bishop of Venice in Florida
HeraldTribune.com
A gender debate on foot washing
By Todd Ruger
Published: Tuesday, March 30, 2010 at 1:00 a.m.
"In a move that brings a national debate home to Southwest Florida Catholic churches, Bishop Frank Dewane has reminded priests that only men should have their feet washed during a pre-Easter ceremony.
Many Catholic priests in Southwest Florida have customarily washed the feet of male and female parishioners on the Thursday before Easter in a symbol of humbly serving others...
"

19 comments:

Rob said...

"should stop giving and see if Bishop Dewane changes his directive on washing women's feet on Holy Thursday."

You attack this bishop because he obeys the law of the Church? This isn't the decision of this one bishop, this is the decision of the Catholic Church. Any who deviate from this are disobeying the Church.

"The bible tells us that Jesus washed his disciples feet. Women were among Jesus' closest disciples."

If you're going to pretend to be a theologian, at least read the Bible. The word of the Lord is quite clear that the only people present at the Last Supper were our Lord and the twelve male Apostles.

"The Risen Christ appeared first to Mary of Magdala and told her to "go and tell" the apostles the Good News of the Resurrection."

Our Lord did not commission her to drive out demons. She also was not present at the institution of the Eucharist. Her being a follower of Christ does not grant upon her the powers of priesthood.

"The church fathers called Mary, the "apostle to the apostles". So,on what grounds does the Catholic Church hierarchy refuse to wash women's feet? "

Once again, there is no mention of the Blessed Mother at the Last Supper. That seems like a pretty important detail were she to have been there.

"Is this another example of sexism? If so, Catholics need to take action. "

The Catholic Church does not tell you how to run your religion, so don't tell us how to run ours.

Crusader said...

Dear Unknown Rob,

jesus was a jewish man. If you would study the celebration of the Jews, you would know that there would be women present and children too.

Now Rob, by whom and how many times do you think the bible has been interpreted ? Least not forgetting local influences of the times over thousands of years.

As for the foot washing read an earlier post that several of us debated through. The fact is, your local Bishop, if you live in that area, called for this to be done. It is common practice for RCIA candidates to be used (men, women and teens) as the foot persons to be washed. The foot washing has been determined to fall into a local practice for choosing the men and women, unless the Bishop puts out an edict that reflect his fear of women's feet - or exclusivity of women and gender bias !

The act of washing the feet was to show humility. It is to show love and acceptance.

In many parishes across the US, ANYONE may go up to have their feet washed ...not just 12, but anyone ! What a loving kind symbolic gesture.

As for the Bishop ...I think the name is Dewane, it appears to be sexism, gender bias and not in accordance with the teachings of the Lord !

Rob,I noticed you don't have a blog and do not give your identity - so your comments are to me, mostly desperate in need clingings. Nice monolithic head shot though.

Our God is an awesome God. He would help wash everyones feet to continue to show his love for us. Yet what would we do for him ?
I would wash everyones feet !

Yes, If we hold our money back...it speaks volumes. The Catholic Church Organization is one of the richest entities on earth. Power is money, power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely !

Hoooray ! For Bridget Mary the RCWP Bishop !
Taking one step and foot at a time !

WE are the Catholic Church, and we are staying in the Catholic Church !

The Catholic Apologist said...

Bridget Mary,

You simply crack me up. You really do.

I echo Rob's comments: Run your religion the way you want, don't tell us how to run ours. If you want to wash the feet of women at your ceremonies, masses, whatever it is you call them, by all means, do it.

Let the people stop giving. Their donations go to help the poor and unfortunate. Do you want to punish the poor (those who YOU yourself claim to want to help) all because of your liberal, secular, atheist, humanist, modernist, pagan ideology?

Seconldy, Bridget Mary, if people stop giving to the Church, it will certainly cause a lot of suffering-but as Jesus said "No servant is greater then his master. If they persecuted me, they will persecute you also." Suffering and persecution simply PROVES the truth of the Catholic Faith Bridget Mary.

The more you persecute us, and the more you call on people to do so, the more you prove the authenticity of message preached! The Church is in the world but not of the world. Those who are of the world do not recognize that which is not of the world.

The Catholic Apologist said...

Linda,

Whether a person chooses to reveal their identity or not- whether they have a blog-in Rob's case- that is an Ad Hominum, and a Red Herring.

Yes, there are places where everyone can go get their feet washed in Catholic Parishes all around the country, and that is a Liturgical abberation. It was something that was never intended, but rather invented by priests who are trying to be real "cool" and "hip" and "with it" and "in vogue" with the "latest 'trends' in Liturgy" as taught by Notre Dame's School of Liturgical Theology.

I for one can't understand what is so hard about priests simply doing the RED and saying the black. If you want to know what is expected in the liturgy and worship of the Church, the GIRM is the document you need to be reading, not Hans Kung or Curran, or some other person who calls themself a "theologian" from Notre Dame. Priests should not be interested in being "trendy" but rather they should worry about whether they are doing what the Church asks of them.

Ravensbarque said...

Rob --

You said, "The word of the Lord is quite clear that the only people present at the Last Supper were our Lord and the twelve male Apostles."

Please tell us WHERE in Scripture you find this. I can't seem to locate it in my Bible -- particularly the ONLY part.

Ravensbarque said...

Apologist --

Are you in essence saying that all liturgy comes from Rome and that the world needs to be in lockstep with the dictates coming out of the Vatican?

What should be done with cultural variations?

Ravensbarque said...

Do you know what would be really interesting? Someone ought to challenge Bishop Dewane to define women. He doesn't want women's feet washed but I haven't heard him offer a definition of woman yet.

There are several terms that need defining. Male/female and man/woman.

Perhaps the bishop could clarify this for his diocese -- just so the "wrong matter" doesn't do something in Church.

Rob said...

"jesus was a jewish man."

At least you got one thing right.

"Now Rob, by whom and how many times do you think the bible has been interpreted ? Least not forgetting local influences of the times over thousands of years."

And also remember that the Apostles and their successors issued corrections to local communities that deviated from the universal Church. You reject the authority of the Church and submit to your own personal authority.

"It is common practice for RCIA candidates to be used (men, women and teens) as the foot persons to be washed"

Don't let irregularities cloud the truth. This is not the universal norm.

"The foot washing has been determined to fall into a local practice for choosing the men and women, unless the Bishop puts out an edict that reflect his fear of women's feet ... In many parishes across the US, ANYONE may go up to have their feet washed ...not just 12, but anyone ! What a loving kind symbolic gesture. "

Incorrect, the Roman Missal specifically says that the feet of men are to be washed. Many parishes also alter the words of consecration, but that doesn't make what they do right.

"The act of washing the feet was to show humility. It is to show love and acceptance."

That's your interpretation. A better one would be that Jesus was teaching his Apostles that the priesthood would require humility and self-sacrifice.

"Please tell us WHERE in Scripture you find this. I can't seem to locate it in my Bible -- particularly the ONLY part."

Luke 22:14 - "And when the hour had come, he reclined at the table, and the twelve apostles with him"

Mark 14:17 - "Now when evening arrived, he came with the Twelve."

Matthew 26:20 - "Now when evening arrived, he reclined at the table with the twelve disciples."

The Gospel of John furthermore mentions the washing of the feet occurring at the Last Supper itself.

I will not give response to the personal attacks.

Ravensbarque said...

Rob --

You quote the Scripture about the 12 being there but you do not explain where the ONLY comes in.

I submit that the Last Supper was a large feast with Jesus, the 12, and their families all in attendance. The room is certainly big enough. Visit it the next time you are in Jerusalem.

Furthermore, it could not have been a Passover meal without women and children. A woman is now (as she was then) required to begin the Passover ritual.

Please explain where you get the ONLY part.

Ravensbarque said...

At the molecular level, male and female are identical. And MATTER is made up of molecules.

The Catholic Apologist said...

Rav,

I am saying that if you can't stand the heat, stay out of the kitchen.

In other words- if someone is going to join a Church that is in communion with the Holy See, then said person should not complain that the Mass and prayer they are recieving and partaking in is the Roman Liturgy as the Church has handed it down.

I do not criticize Bridget Mary for her liturgies, why does she criticize Catholics for theirs? No one is pointing a gun to people's heads and forcing them to stay in communion with Rome. If they don't like it, they can go to some other Church where they can have their Burger King Spirituality. They can in essence join a Church where they can have it THEIR way. If the person wants liberal, secular, atheistic, modernistic, humanism, fine. Let them join a Church that preaches the Gospel of secular, liberal, atheistic, modernistic, humanism. The Church of Rome does not preach that Gospel. She preaches the Gospel as God has given it to her. Rome's motto is "The Gospel is ours to proclaim, not edit." Bridget Mary's Gospel is "The Gospel is mine to proclaim, and mine to edit."

Let them go join up with Joe Osteen and have their cotten candy theology.

The Roman Church does not work that way, Rav, and you know it. If you are going to join up with a Church in communion with Rome, there are certain obligations and duties expected of you. If the person can't hack it, either don't complain, or simply leave. Being Catholic means something. It is not simply a name.

The Catholic Apologist said...

Rav,

Men and women are the "same" at the level of molecules. So what? What does that prove? You have stated that several times, as if you think it means something, or proves something.

Men and women are the same- since they share the same nature. It does not follow however that men and women are androgenous, or asexual, which you seem to think. Men and women are the same in nature, distinct in sexual traits. No matter how much you try to deny it, you can't escape it. Men and women may even be wired differently in their brains, which causes them to process information differently.

The Catholic Apologist said...

Rav,

The point is not that the Bible says "only" the apostles were there. The point is that the Bible emphasizes fact in no less then three gospels that the 12 played a huge role. It makes no mention of people present other then the 12, implying at the very least that the focus of the teaching, and action is the 12.

Seconldy, the passover meal was likely celebrated with family and friends. This is interesting becasue Jesus according to custum should have been with his family, yet he was with the 12, and Scripture in no way implies that his family was present.

Does the word "only" appear? No. However the evidence given in the text would seem to suggest the focus of the action and the teaching was the 12.

Finally, how many times have I told you that it matters not who was present anyway. It matter who offered the sacrifice.

Anonymous said...

"Furthermore, it could not have been a Passover meal without women and children."

Well, the simple fact that our Lord said "This is my body... this is my blood" means that it was not your traditional Passover meal. Rather, the Last Supper was the establishment of the new Passover feast; the Holy Eucharist.

You quote the Scripture about the 12 being there but you do not explain where the ONLY comes in.

Better yet, do you have proof that there were people there other than our Lord and his twelve Apostles?

~Dr. K

VSO said...

Boy this poncho lady spiel gets old, much like your movement in which bad theology and biblical illiteracy is par the course. I'd hate to break this to you but calling yourself a "Catholic priest" doesn't make you one. Call a shovel an ice-cream machine all you want, it's still a shovel. You are NOT CATHOLIC for you are excommunicated.

Your problem is with God. GOD DISCRIMINATES! Don't you think that if Jesus wanted women to be priests he would've personally made them so? His own Mother wasn't a priest. And before you go on about a Romophobic conspiracy theory, women have NEVER been priests in the Armenian, Ethiopian, Coptic, Greek, Indian, Chaldean, or Russian Churches either. As my Trophy Wife says" Why the hell would I want to be treated like a man when I can be treated better?!"

If you want to wash women's feet so bad do it in your ceremony/meeting/gathering or have the intellectual honesty to join the Episcopal coven. Catholics never tell you what do to in your religion after all.

But thank you for bringing to light the idea that women were there, likely preparing the meal and cleaning up while the Lord was getting murdered. Perhaps Bridget Mary and her wymin-priestess ilk can start to cook instead of blasphemously simulating sacraments?

Also, are there any male nuns in your religion?

Ravensbarque said...

Apologist --

You say, "Men and women are the "same" at the level of molecules. So what? What does that prove? You have stated that several times, as if you think it means something, or proves something."

My point is that I would like a definition of male and a definition of female and a definition of man and a definition of woman.

How about it? Let's have it.

Crusader said...

VSO,

Wow, such passion and fuel igniting jolts went through my mind when you wrote ....."'''''in which bad theology and biblical illiteracy is par the course. I'd hate to break this to you but calling yourself a "Catholic priest" doesn't make you one. Call a shovel an ice-cream machine all you want, it's still a shovel.""""""""""""""

But then I read some of your blog and read that you refer to the person that you entered in to the sacrament of holy matrimony ..... "THE TROPHY WIFE " !
And you blog about BEER !

Do you really expect anyone that does not live on some compound to take you seriously ?

Holy Thursday Mass at St. Puis X Catholic Church will be washing the feet of men and women today ...along with the rest of the entire country that isn't trapped on the compound or fresh out of one !

Guess you will excommunicate us all ?
Yes, you are in "Show" business as you write on your blog !

We are the Catholic Church and We are not leaving. Our supporters are not leaving and Jesus is not leaving us either !

Larry Denninger said...

But then I read some of your blog and read that you refer to the person that you entered in to the sacrament of holy matrimony ..... "THE TROPHY WIFE " !
And you blog about BEER !


Irony is lost on you folks.

We are the Catholic Church and We are not leaving. Our supporters are not leaving and Jesus is not leaving us either !

It wouldn't surprise me if Arius said something along those lines...

The Catholic Apologist said...

Linda,

I know this is going to shock you, so I am going to try to say this as gently and as pastorally sensitive as I possibly can. Perhaps you should sit down before you read this:

The 1970's are over, and have been now for 40 years. I would invite you to get in your little Dalorian, make sure your flux capacitor is fluxing, set your time dials to the year 2010 and come back to the future.

The Church has progressed from the "Liturgical Trends" of 1970, Linda. Liturgical experimentation was invogue for a while, but the Church has moved on, I wish you would too. It is not the Church that is "outdated" but rather you and Bridget Mary who are "outdated." You refuse to give up the 60's and 70's and demand people in the Church still live as though the year is 1970.